Comments

Fascinating and funny! From Pat's post, I can work out that the prince was Raja Tuckt Singh of Jodhpur (Takht Singh). His staff, Syed Uckbur Ally and Khirat Ali Khan Bangash, had been in London since 1851 and worked out of 31 Sussex Place, Kensington (see The Multiple Meanings of 1857 for Indians in Britain by Michael H. Fisher, Danforth Professor of History - It opens a PDF and gives an insight into Indians living in Britain in the mid-1850s). From the same reference, when word of the Indian Rebellion of 1857 reached Indians in Britain: "virtually all recognised that they had to make visible choice, whatever their private sentiments. Most of those supportive of the insurrection dared not express that sentiment in the face of an almost uniformly hostile host society. Some publicly professed their loyalty to Britain and opposition to the "mutineers," hoping to use this crisis to their own political or personal advantage, or at least to mitigate its disadvantages. Of those who returned to India, some faced accusations of treason, arrest, and interrogation by British authorities".

Fisher continues: "These diplomats [Syed Uckbur Ally and Khirat Ali Khan Bangash], however, left London for Bombay at end of 1857, where they and their English attorney was arrested on charges of treason. The British ship captain testified against them:

the Mahommedan secretary [Khirat Ali Khan Bangash], in my presence and in the presence of the passengers, said that he could murder [Governor-General] Lord Dalhousie without remorse, and throw his body to the vultures, or something to that effect.... He frequently expressed his sympathy with the rebels and mutineers, and expressed his wishes for their success. He frequently stated that the country would be much better governed under native princes and rulers than by the English. The Syed vakeel [Syed Uckbur Ally] never expressed himself. He spoke English indifferently, and had little to say.... I now produce a book, entitled, "Oude, its Princes and its Government Vindicated." It was given to me by one of the passengers, Mrs. Fellows, who told me that Mr. Hudson [their British lawyer] had sent it to her, and that he had assisted in its compilation. I understand that a case of these books is on board intended for circulation here...

The ship captain added for good measure that one of their servants, Mirjan, had abandoned his English wife back in London."

So it looks like Mergia/Mirjan returned to Bombay in 1857, though, perhaps not arrested unlike his fellow civil servants.

Richard

Have you seen this in the West London Observer of Sat 28th Feb 1857?

"The Indian Cook and his Wife.— On Saturday, Mirgu Sambay, native of India, who was dressed in the costume of his country, and who appeared to be a man about fifty years of age, was placed in the dock before Mr. Dayman, charged with neglecting to maintain his wife Sarah, and her child, seven months old, whereby they had become chargeable to the parish of Kensington. The wife stood in the witness box, and her youth contrasted strangely with the age of the prisoner. She was Englishwoman about twenty-five years of age, and was dressed in the workhouse clothes.

Mr. T. Madden, the relieving officer, said the prisoner was cook in the service of Indian prince, residing at 31, Sussex Place, Kensington New Town. He had 5s. per week and his board and lodging. In April last, the prisoner was taken before the local Justices, and at that time the wife was in the family way with her present child, and the magistrates ordered him to pay 1s. 6d. per week towards his wife support, they believing that he could not afford any more. Since that there had been an increase in the family, the birth of the child, and the guardians thought 1s. 6d. not sufficient to support mother and child, and that ought to pay 3s. The wife said her husband could pay that, got a great deal more than 5s. per week, had no clothes to buy, not even his shoe strings. (Laughter.) Mr. Madden said he had applied to the prisoner for increase in his payments, but he always showed by signs that he did not understand him. The wife, indignantly : he can speak English, I must know, I knew him twelve months before I married him. Mr. Marlin, who was present, said defended the prisoner on the last occasion, and letters were produced from the wife showing that she had many doubts about her own religion and much good of his (the prisoner’s) that she was ready to embrace his religion and follow the Koran. (Laughter.) The wife said it was all untrue. It was her husband’s deceit, Mr. Dayman asked her where she was married. The wile said she was married by license in Kensington Church. Mr. Dayman said she ought to have known better than to have married him. He could not understand whv the mother did not interfere. The mother said she did interfere, but her daughter was determined to have a black husband. (Increased laughter.) Mr. Martin said the prince had been in this country since 1851, and was engaged in settling dispute respecting his claim upon the East India Company. Mr. Dayman thought the prisoner could afford pay the 3s, per week, and if he did not, should certainly send him to prison. The prisoner made signs that he did not understand. Mr. Dayman told him did not believe him, and the prisoner then left the court without casting one glance upon either his wife or child. "

Not sure that this answers your question but it makes for some interesting reading!

Pat

Re Research Forum comment - "not attracting many queries" and on same page Facebook Group Section- "this group does allow for immediate replies to queries" + discussion on Hailie Selassie - perhaps WFHS members on the Society website would be interested ? It seems one group is cancelling the other.

Maybe its something the Society need to look at ?

During Pats talk on Weston a lady "Catherine" said she had  house plans - Jenny Tovey asked her if she could download them onto the Facebook Group !  (Why not the WFHS Research Forum  for all paid-up members who had an invitation and were listening to the lecture at that time ?).

I think the '20 Questions to ask your grandparents' article is also a good starting point should you want to write up your own story for your children and grandchildren...

Many thanks Dave!  You have also spotted my deliberate mistake - for Marina read Miriam!  That 1871 census entry is new to me so I'll investigate that further.  Thanks for that.  The rest is exactly what was confusing me - and I was beginning to draw similar conclusions.  When he married Harriet it was at a Baptist Church which I think may explain the lack of christenings.  I'm really grateful for your opinion on this - Thank you.

Well, Pat, this is a real Curate’s egg, isn’t it? This is what I see although the picture is far from clear:

1.     Like you I haven’t found any christenings for any of the children born in Weston.

(H)ellen Georgy Williams

2.     The GRO has births registered in Axbridge RD for Ellen Georgy Williams in 1849 Q4 and Hellen Georgy Williams in 1851 Quarter 2. In each case the mother’s maiden name is recorded as Marchant. Findmypast has both births but in the case of Hellen Georgy Williams no maiden name is recorded for the mother.

3.     Ellen G Williams aged 1 is in the 1851 census. This must be the girl whose birth was registered in 1849.

4.     There is a death record registered in Axbridge in 1851 Q2 for Ellen Georgia Williams. She was buried at Weston Emmanuel on 4 April 1851 aged 16 months. This is 5 days after the date of the 1851 Census.

5.     It is possible that Ellen and Hellen were the same girl. It is also possible that their mother was “with child” when Ellen died and gave the newborn girl virtually the same name as her deceased sister. I think you would need to obtain both birth certificates (or at least the second one) to be sure one way or the other. But there is another possibility…

Louisa S Williams

6.     …Louisa S Williams is aged 1 month at the time of the 1851 Census. I haven’t been able to find any birth record in that name with a mother’s maiden name of Marchant. This raises the possibility that when her birth was registered her parents changed her name to Hellen Georgy Williams in memory of their recently deceased daughter.

Marina Williams

7.     I cannot find a Marina Williams in the 1861 Census record. There is a Miriam aged 7 born in Weston. But I can’t find a birth record in that name with a mother’s maiden name of Marchant.

8.     There is a Miriam A Williams born 1854 in Weston living in Barcombe, Sussex in 1871. She is living with 2 sisters both born in Weston. They are Georgiana E Williams aged 19 and Laura E Williams aged 13. Georgiana E Williams must, I think, be (H)ellen Georgy Williams.

Laura Emma Williams

9.     The Laura Emma Williams buried in 1853 might indeed be a member of this rather chaotic family. According to the burial record she was 5 months old. I cannot find a birth record for her. But there is another in the 1861 Census and, as I said above, in the 1871 Census. She, of course, was a daughter of Emma Shorney.